Patriot Load Data

[Fishbc]

You know I consider myself very knowledgeable on reloading, avoiding high pressure, and ballistics.
However, when it comes to smokeless muzzleloaders I’m lost.
Most of what I read is someone’s experiences.
Somebody needs to make a reloading manual just for smokeless muzzleloading.

 

[GM54-120]

Main thing to remember is a SML load is ALWAYS a compressed load. Just look at the Hornady load data for all 3 45-70s. Modern/LeverGun/TrapDoor, its easy to see how fast a 34kpsi load turns into a 45kspi load by just a few more grains because now that load is compressed.

Sabot loads are pretty simple. Most loads as they get over 35kpsi will start shredding sabots. And typically a sabot load will make less pressure because its easier to move down the barrel than a "bullet to bore" fit.

I would avoid N130 simply because its too slow and most likely will be temp sensitive with light bullets in sabots. Might be ok with something like a 240-250gr 40cal sabot load. N530 while slower still is dbl based and needs less peak to burn efficiently.

Reloder7 while dirty is very forgiving and low peak. Great sabot powder as far as reliability but a tad dirty for sabotless.

N120 super clean but a bit temp sensitive. Just check your speeds if you work up the load in warm weather but hunt in the cold.

4198 is pretty good for both. H and IMR are pretty much interchangeable as far as sabot load data.

N110 is excellent for lighter loads but be super careful because a double load will not be forgiving. 34gr may shoot sabots great all day but 35gr it drills them left and right.....Your mileage may vary.

 

[Fishbc]

Main thing to remember is a SML load is ALWAYS a compressed load. Just look at the Hornady load data for all 3 45-70s. Modern/LeverGun/TrapDoor, its easy to see how fast a 34kpsi load turns into a 45kspi load by just a few more grains because now that load is compressed.

Sabot loads are pretty simple. Most loads as they get over 35kpsi will start shredding sabots. And typically a sabot load will make less pressure because its easier to move down the barrel than a "bullet to bore" fit.

I would avoid N130 simply because its too slow and most likely will be temp sensitive with light bullets in sabots. Might be ok with something like a 240-250gr 40cal sabot load. N530 while slower still is dbl based and needs less peak to burn efficiently.

Reloder7 while dirty is very forgiving and low peak. Great sabot powder as far as reliability but a tad dirty for sabotless.

N120 super clean but a bit temp sensitive. Just check your speeds if you work up the load in warm weather but hunt in the cold.

4198 is pretty good for both. H and IMR are pretty much interchangeable as far as sabot load data.

N110 is excellent for lighter loads but be super careful because a double load will not be forgiving. 34gr may shoot sabots great all day but 35gr it drills them left and right.....Your mileage may vary.

Ty
Very helpful
I mostly will stay with proven loads. I always want to understand better.
I am saving all these great posts

 

[LBAhunter]

In that Super Lightweight Patriot, you may want to use VV N110.
30 +/- Grs of Powder is going to Recoil a lot Less than 57 +/- Grs of Powder.
Less Expensive (More Shots per Pound) Protect your Eyebrow from Scope Cuts & your Shoulder from Brusing

^^^^^Still agree^^^^^

Main thing to remember is a SML load is ALWAYS a compressed load. Just look at the Hornady load data for all 3 45-70s. Modern/LeverGun/TrapDoor, its easy to see how fast a 34kpsi load turns into a 45kspi load by just a few more grains because now that load is compressed.

Sabot loads are pretty simple. Most loads as they get over 35kpsi will start shredding sabots. And typically a sabot load will make less pressure because its easier to move down the barrel than a "bullet to bore" fit.

I would avoid N130 simply because its too slow and most likely will be temp sensitive with light bullets in sabots. Might be ok with something like a 240-250gr 40cal sabot load. N530 while slower still is dbl based and needs less peak to burn efficiently.

Reloder7 while dirty is very forgiving and low peak. Great sabot powder as far as reliability but a tad dirty for sabotless.

N120 super clean but a bit temp sensitive. Just check your speeds if you work up the load in warm weather but hunt in the cold.

4198 is pretty good for both. H and IMR are pretty much interchangeable as far as sabot load data.

N110 is excellent for lighter loads but be super careful because a double load will not be forgiving. 34gr may shoot sabots great all day but 35gr it drills them left and right.....Your mileage may vary.

With that light of a gun, the only powder I would even consider is N110 unless I just absolutely had to shoot another powder.

 

[Fishbc]

^^^^^Still agree^^^^^

With that light of a gun, the only powder I would even consider is N110 unless I just absolutely had to shoot another powder.

I know most people are concerned with recoil. However I am not. I enjoy shooting big bore guns and never use brakes (too loud).
Like I said in an earlier post I shot and hunted with a T/C Renegade 54 cal with a steel butt plate. Load was 120 FFG with a 530 gr. Maxi-Ball.
Most I ever shot at one time was 10 rounds off the bench. Left bruising on the whole front of my shoulder.
Never noticed it while hunting.
100’s of 338 Win Mag rounds with 250 gr. bullets

 

[LBAhunter]

I know most people are concerned with recoil. However I am not. I enjoy shooting big bore guns and never use brakes (too loud).
Like I said in an earlier post I shot and hunted with a T/C Renegade 54 cal with a steel butt plate. Load was 120 FFG with a 530 gr. Maxi-Ball.
Most I ever shot at one time was 10 rounds off the bench. Left bruising on the whole front of my shoulder.
Never noticed it while hunting.
100’s of 338 Win Mag rounds with 250 gr. bullets

I like shooting guns, not enduring getting beat with them. To each his own.

 

[GM54-120]

One thing real nice about N110 is its not temp sensitive. You can even work up mildish sabotless loads like a 200-225gr and 30-32gr of N110. That would be a nice recreational load with something like a 200gr or 225gr FTX. That should still be a 2200ish fps load.

 

[Fishbc]

I appreciate all the load info that people have posted on here. Thank you.
I realize that to most recoil is a consideration.
I appreciate those posts as well as they were trying to give me a heads up.
Started shooting muzzleloaders over 40 years ago. Back then 54 cal. was king. As were steel butt plates.
Heavy recoil was a given.
Guess I am stuck in the past
Always felt guns were to kick on both ends!!

 

[LBAhunter]

One thing real nice about N110 is its not temp sensitive. You can even work up mildish sabotless loads like a 200-225gr and 30-32gr of N110. That would be a nice recreational load with something like a 200gr or 225gr FTX. That should still be a 2200ish fps load.

I have shot a Barnes 45ACP 185gr TAC-XP sabotless with N110, just playing around with sabotless. In my Scout conversion, that bullet can go straight in the barrel with a Eastern Maine wool wad. If I played with the load alittle, I could have it shooting real good!!

 

[Fishbc]

I have shot a Barnes 45ACP 185gr TAC-XP sabotless with N110, just playing around with sabotless. In my Scout conversion, that bullet can go straight in the barrel with a Eastern Maine wool wad. If I played with the load alittle, I could have it shooting real good!!

Wow!
No sabot!!
How thick is the jacket on that bullet?
I’ve heard of them but know nothing about them

 

[LBAhunter]

Wow!
No sabot!!
How thick is the jacket on that bullet?
I’ve heard of them but know nothing about them

It's a copper bullet.

 

[Fishbc]

It's a copper bullet.

Ok full copper.
I’m surprised it seals in the bore?

 

[Fishbc]

Ok full copper.
I’m surprised it seals in the bore?

I guess I should say it grips the riflings enough to load without being impossible to load.

 

[LBAhunter]

Ok full copper.
I’m surprised it seals in the bore?

The wad helps with the seal.

 

[LBAhunter]

I guess I should say it grips the riflings enough to load without being impossible to load.

From my experience, Barnes are usually undersized. My Scout has a pretty consistent bore. I could probably knurl it a to tighten it up alittle.

 

[Fishbc]

From my experience, Barnes are usually undersized. My Scout has a pretty consistent bore. I could probably knurl it a to tighten it up alittle.

Interesting
I assume velocity would be too high to hunt with?
Especially at close range.
For deer, not predators.

 

[smokepolehall]

Not really, you can lower powder charge. Example is N110 shoot 25 gr with that bullet be about 1600-1650 fps

 

[LBAhunter]

Interesting
I assume velocity would be too high to hunt with?
Especially at close range.
For deer, not predators.

Nope, even if you blow the petals off, you ain't losing that much weight.

 

[LBAhunter]

Not really, you can lower powder charge. Example is N110 shoot 25 gr with that bullet be about 1600-1650 fps

You can for closer shots. I prefer it faster............

 

[GodLY08]

In both my TC Patriot .45 and my Charles Moore .45 I shoot 15 grains 3F for short range (15 yard) paper targets. Very accurate.